Saurel
Game Owner
 NWN
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 19 Jun 2002 |
 Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 05:40AM |
Sorry if this has been asked/explained already. But I know in this game we are the hero regardless... and I'm wondering after ME - how much control will we have over the pc's personality?
Shepard is pretty mapped out in regards to renagade or paragon. And if that isn't you- you are kind of out of luck.
I'm wondering if there has been any word on if there is more flexibility in DA?
Or will we all be playing a character that has a similar viewpoint in regards to what is occuring. |
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John Forseti
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Mass Effect
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
From: Great Britain |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 05:58AM |
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I suspect that as the Dialougue isn't all voiced they can cram some more in, which should hopefully give you more options than "Kill everything" or "Kill everything nicely" Edited By John Forseti on 12/21/07 05:59 |
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Biowarian
Game Owner
 Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Joined: 20 May 2006 |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 11:03AM |
Quote: Posted 12/21/07 05:58 (GMT) by John Forseti
I suspect that as the Dialougue isn't all voiced they can cram some more in, which should hopefully give you more options than "Kill everything" or "Kill everything nicely"
I think these should be the minimum set of options at any real crossroads:
"Kill X (sadly)"
"Kill X (neutrally)"
"Kill X (happily)"
"Spare X (manipulatively)"
"Spare X (compassionately)"  |
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VonChalay
Game Owner
 NWN
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
From: Planet Earth |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 11:36AM |
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, we need rogue line choices for the 3rd of us who want to roll the skill-user class and RP as such, dangit!
So add to the above:
Kill X (sarcastically or dismissively or nonchalantly)
e.g. to Firkraag after he reveals his long observation of PC and his interest in luring PC to his lair:
“Aw poor lil dragon, all puffed up with ego and no one else to play with.”
or
"Hmm, you really should see a healer about that. Stalker-personality disorder is really quite disturbing to see in a dragon."
Come on DA writers, you know you will have a whale of a time writting them.
Cheers
PS. It’s one of the things that made me really like Witcher; it had rogue-appropriate lines galore.Edited By VonChalay on 12/21/07 11:56 |
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Chokladglass
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 01 May 2007
From: The dark forests of Sweden |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 12:57PM |
Quote: Posted 12/21/07 11:36 (GMT) by VonChalay
"Hmm, you really should see a healer about that. Stalker-personality disorder is really quite disturbing to see in a dragon."
I'd pay to see that line in a game! Gimme more! 
Why does that kind of humour have to be connected with being a rogue (or dexterity fighter or whatever it's called in DA) though? Aren't there any sarcastic fighters? Of course it fits a non lawful personality well, but you don't have to be a rogue to enjoy making fun of everything and everyone... 
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Edit: I won't tell you what I edited!  Being a perfectionist I have the right to edit as much as I want!Edited By Chokladglass on 12/21/07 12:59 |
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Wrath of Dagon
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR Xbox
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 11 Jul 2007 |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 02:18PM |
Quote: Posted 12/21/07 05:58 (GMT) by John Forseti
I suspect that as the Dialougue isn't all voiced they can cram some more in, which should hopefully give you more options than "Kill everything" or "Kill everything nicely"
They could've given you more choices in ME instead of the mostly boring and pointless "Investigate" options.
As far as DA, all they said is there won't be a good/evil alignment, but you will get a range of choices which make sense for the situation. Whether that actually means more than 2 most of the time we'll have to see.
_________________
Just say NO to UCW |
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David Gaider
Lead Writer
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: Edmonton, AB |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 09:13PM |
Quote: Posted 12/21/07 11:36 (GMT) by VonChalay
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, we need rogue line choices for the 3rd of us who want to roll the skill-user class and RP as such, dangit!
As someone who enjoys a little snarkiness, myself, and employs plenty of it in real life I will just point out that sadly it doesn't work quite like you'd expect it to in a game.
The problem is that in order to be snappy or witty you often need very specific lines -- much like the examples you've given. The problem is that they often become too specific. You get players who want to have a playful or cheeky character but who wouldn't opt for that tone specifically (in which case the option is wasted)... you might think it's weird, but when it comes to the funny responses there are a lot more nuances than you might think. Sarcasm is not the same as cheeky is not the same as witty. So which one do you pick?
Not that you can't occasionally find something that's still a funny line without it being so specific nobody wants to pick it -- there are lines like that in DA, for sure. The issue that you need to contend with, really, is just how much time you're going to spend giving the player options on how he says things rather than what he says. Considering that the "smartass" option is generally 100% a how-you-say-it option rather than a what-you-say one, it's often a difficult one to squeeze in.
I suppose we could make a game where there are dozens of option at every node which include all the various ways that a player could say a line, for the purity of roleplaying (and one assumes these dozens would be for every possible what-you-say option)... either that or you get to pick some option at the beginning of the game saying "I am stoic" or "I am a smartass" or what have you, and then all the what-you-say options were presented in that manner (requiring, of course, that we then write every single dialogue options in each applicable variety -- I'm really looking forward to THAT game, myself, wooo)... but, to me, that seems like spending an inordinate amount of time on something that I think you really would get a limited amount of return on. That may just be me, but I think there's a reason you tend to only get these sorts of lines in games where your protaganist is a set one that has already been assigned that smartass-type personality and there isn't any choice in the matter.
Just something for you to chew on. I suspect there are people who will profoundly disagree with me (as always), but all I'm saying is that this is one place where my experience has taught me that what you think might be neat doesn't always play out like you think it should when it comes to actual application in-game.
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Zevran: "Hello my stocky little friend!"
Oghren: "Huh. You got small breasts for a gal."
Zevran: "Ah. This is where we begin the typical dwarven/elven rivalry, is it?"
Oghren: "Nahhh." |
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Kalgaleth
Game Owner
 NWN 2
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 10:27PM |
You have to sleep, if you didn't sleep you'd go c... oh.
Was one of my favourite PC lines.
I always liked the idea of NPC's delivering humour, their personality can be more easily crafted, as can their lines. |
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Nicephorus
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Joined: 23 Aug 2002 |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 11:25PM |
Quote: Posted 12/21/07 21:13 (GMT) by David Gaider
I suppose we could make a game where there are dozens of option at every node which include all the various ways that a player could say a line, for the purity of roleplaying (and one assumes these dozens would be for every possible what-you-say option)...
Well, the way I'd do it would be to try to cover my bases with a few fairly generic choices so that everyones got something fairly appropriate to say, then toss in a few cool lines which fit the situation and not worry too much about how specific they are. Perhaps go over things at the end and see if I could include a few more choices for some of the types which have got a bit neglected.
But then I'm not a professional writer - or indeed an amateur one, really - so I'm probably talking rubbish
I don't see any need to be snarky, or cheeky or whatever all the time - after all, I just wrote a silly post about elves in backpacks on another board, but am being rather straightforward here - but even a few occasions to allow the PC to say "Hey, look at me, I've got a personality too!" would help make my honourable paladin type guys feel different from my rogues with a heart of gold.
Oh, and if a line is genuinely funny, then I'll proably appreciate it even if I don't have my character say it. |
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Wrath of Dagon
Game Owner
SW: KotOR Xbox
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 11 Jul 2007 |
Posted: Friday, 21 December 2007 11:52PM |
Quote: Posted 12/21/07 21:13 (GMT) by David Gaider
Sarcasm is not the same as cheeky is not the same as witty. So which one do you pick?
Sarcasm for sure. All choices at a minimum should be good, evil, and sarcastic (or caustic, if you want to up the ante).
_________________
Just say NO to UCW |
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Jono1319
Game Owner
 NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 |
Posted: Saturday, 22 December 2007 02:07AM |
Quote: Posted 12/21/07 21:13 (GMT) by David Gaider Quote: Posted 12/21/07 11:36 (GMT) by VonChalay
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, we need rogue line choices for the 3rd of us who want to roll the skill-user class and RP as such, dangit!
As someone who enjoys a little snarkiness, myself, and employs plenty of it in real life I will just point out that sadly it doesn't work quite like you'd expect it to in a game. The problem is that in order to be snappy or witty you often need very specific lines -- much like the examples you've given. The problem is that they often become too specific. You get players who want to have a playful or cheeky character but who wouldn't opt for that tone specifically (in which case the option is wasted)... you might think it's weird, but when it comes to the funny responses there are a lot more nuances than you might think. Sarcasm is not the same as cheeky is not the same as witty. So which one do you pick? Not that you can't occasionally find something that's still a funny line without it being so specific nobody wants to pick it -- there are lines like that in DA, for sure. The issue that you need to contend with, really, is just how much time you're going to spend giving the player options on how he says things rather than what he says. Considering that the "smartass" option is generally 100% a how-you-say-it option rather than a what-you-say one, it's often a difficult one to squeeze in. I suppose we could make a game where there are dozens of option at every node which include all the various ways that a player could say a line, for the purity of roleplaying (and one assumes these dozens would be for every possible what-you-say option)... either that or you get to pick some option at the beginning of the game saying "I am stoic" or "I am a smartass" or what have you, and then all the what-you-say options were presented in that manner (requiring, of course, that we then write every single dialogue options in each applicable variety -- I'm really looking forward to THAT game, myself, wooo)... but, to me, that seems like spending an inordinate amount of time on something that I think you really would get a limited amount of return on. That may just be me, but I think there's a reason you tend to only get these sorts of lines in games where your protaganist is a set one that has already been assigned that smartass-type personality and there isn't any choice in the matter. Just something for you to chew on. I suspect there are people who will profoundly disagree with me (as always), but all I'm saying is that this is one place where my experience has taught me that what you think might be neat doesn't always play out like you think it should when it comes to actual application in-game.
I see what you are saying but wouldn't this be a bigger issue in spoken dialog? With different tones, body language, etc it is often times more difficult to be "witty" in the exact expected way of the player, but with written dialog I think this would be completely different. I don't know if the dialog will work like BG or not in DA. I think when dialog is written it can be interpreted many different ways (perhaps the way you wanted it to be spoken). For example if you have a "witty" response in written dialog it may make more sense because of the way you interpret the way the character is speaking the line of dialog.
I think ME would have a more difficult times with Witty, snappy, sarcastic, etc. lines of dialog because everything is spoken dialog. I think DA might have more options because it is not all spoken dialog?
WoW... does this make sense to anyone? 
I think it makes sense to me.. hahah.
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Baldurs Gate IIEdited By Jono1319 on 12/22/07 02:10 |
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Saurel
Game Owner
NWN
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 19 Jun 2002 |
Posted: Saturday, 22 December 2007 02:28AM |
Quote: Posted 12/22/07 02:07 (GMT) by Jono1319 WoW... does this make sense to anyone? I think it makes sense to me.. hahah.
It makes sense..but I think its harder to make those lines actually be effective without VO. Granted the actors on ME wouldn't have worked, since Shepard was a humorless uber-patriot. But if you had someone like Bruce Campbell - you could see where you might actually get a LOL where if it was just written you wouldn't. |
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KIrving
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
From: Melbourne, Australia |
Posted: Saturday, 22 December 2007 03:56AM |
Quote: Posted 12/22/07 02:28 (GMT) by Saurel Quote: Posted 12/22/07 02:07 (GMT) by Jono1319 WoW... does this make sense to anyone? I think it makes sense to me.. hahah.
It makes sense..but I think its harder to make those lines actually be effective without VO. Granted the actors on ME wouldn't have worked, since Shepard was a humorless uber-patriot. But if you had someone like Bruce Campbell - you could see where you might actually get a LOL where if it was just written you wouldn't.
I really don't agree with that, (although it would be great to have Bruce Campbell voicing an npc  ), as it implies that if you read funny lines of dialogue in something like, say a book, you wouldn't laugh at them unless someone was, effectively, reading them aloud to you.
It is perfectly possible to completely convey sarcastic, witty, smartarse, mean or anything else in written dialogue. BioWare have done it really well in the past, although I would prefer that any dialogue options that were not, deliberately mean, do not get highly negative responses. Misunderstandings are fine and realistic though and could lead into 'smoothing over', follow on dialogue options perhaps.Edited By KIrving on 12/22/07 03:58 |
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Saurel
Game Owner
NWN
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 19 Jun 2002 |
Posted: Saturday, 22 December 2007 05:00AM |
Quote: Posted 12/22/07 03:56 (GMT) by KIrving I really don't agree with that, (although it would be great to have Bruce Campbell voicing an npc ), as it implies that if you read funny lines of dialogue in something like, say a book, you wouldn't laugh at them unless someone was, effectively, reading them aloud to you.
I haven't read a book where a character's line makes me laugh  ...which I feel sad about obviously |
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John Forseti
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Mass Effect
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
From: Great Britain |
Posted: Saturday, 22 December 2007 05:40AM |
Quote: Posted 12/22/07 05:00 (GMT) by Saurel I haven't read a book where a character's line makes me laugh ...which I feel sad about obviously
Lookup the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. |
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