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BioWare Forums  Forum Archives Old Dragon Age Forums Dragon Age (Old) Most Destructive - Melee or Magic
Dragon Age (Old)
Zelphi
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 Posted: Wednesday, 07 November 2007 12:56PM |
Having roled healer or tank in other multiplay games for far too long, I feel that the SP of DA may become the best place to screw that and blow stuff up (or be otherwise destructive).
Any chance of Dynasty Warrior styled cleaving through armies, or an overtly destructive caster class who's sole job is to make masses of people fall over and become lootable?
I hear there's mass combat, but magicians may be somewhat curtailed in how rampantly dominant they may become?
I don't mind about the method, but i'd like to see a high kill count class.
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Quote: Posted 09/14/04 15:35:02 (GMT) by Darcy Pajak
At this time, I can say that we have no plans to impliment a z-axis in Dragon age.
DA is a 2D sprite based game!
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Secret of Mana is the precursor to DA! | 
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Planetus
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Posted: Wednesday, 07 November 2007 02:23PM |
It would be interesting to see something of the opposite of this for magic. Imagine a system where magic doesn't usually do damage, where magic specializes in doing that which no one else can do, such as healing, summoning, confusion, speed, and other effects like that. Killing things? Leave that to the warriors, but let the wizard clear the mountain pass of snow.
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Melrai
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Posted: Wednesday, 07 November 2007 03:09PM |
Quote: Posted 11/07/07 14:23 (GMT) by Planetus
Leave that to the warriors, but let the wizard clear the mountain pass of snow.
This snow you speak of... What kind of loot does it drop?  | |
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Barrett R
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Posted: Wednesday, 07 November 2007 04:23PM |
Depends how many mountain climbers got lost up there.
I like Where Planetus is going - taking the caster role in a different direction than the typical mass 'splodey goodness. Let warriors be the tools of war, and casters can take on more unique roles like effecting the environment; clearing a mountain pass, brushing aside a rock-covered entrance, bending a tree to save a kitten...
Though such scenarios seem like they'd be rather scripted and set in place from the get-go.
Not to say that mass 'splodey goodness isn't tons of fun either  | |
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DogHam
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 05:16AM |
I don't think BioWare is taking wizards down that path-clearing, kitty-saving path. In TheDAS, wizards are going to be outcasts (why particularly isn't totally known, correct me if I am wrong). There is a lot of suspicion and fear regarding them and their potential power.
Also - if I remember correctly, there is no summoning.
Actually, and now I am just writing-stream of thought. If there is no summoning - does that include "summoning" a fireball? Are reagents or material "spell components" involved? | |
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Wudan Monkey
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 08:22AM |
From what the devs have said about magic, I wouldn't expect to be a magic missile/fireball slinging heavy artillery mage. Though I would want a higher level mage to be able to do something creative against a charging horde, like causing the stones under their feet to explode, creating a cloud of bloody, confusing shrapnel.
And then hope he can either slip away, or get behind his friends Beefsteak and Murderboy.
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Rulian
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 03:07PM |
Quote: Posted 11/07/07 12:56 (GMT) by Zelphi
Having roled healer or tank in other multiplay games for far too long, I feel that the SP of DA may become the best place to screw that and blow stuff up (or be otherwise destructive).
Any chance of Dynasty Warrior styled cleaving through armies, or an overtly destructive caster class who's sole job is to make masses of people fall over and become lootable?
I hear there's mass combat, but magicians may be somewhat curtailed in how rampantly dominant they may become?
I don't mind about the method, but i'd like to see a high kill count class.
This thread's subject and content is very ironic. We've had many complaints here in the past of rpg game mechanics allowing the player to mow down wave after wave of weak little inconsequential enemies.
I enjoyed the excitement and thrill of playing Dynasty Warriors also Zelphi. Unfortunately after a while the game quickly broke down as most of the challenging fun went out the window with only a few levels as the exception. One of the game's mechanical highlights was the map highlighting the various army advancements and activities. Observing the progress imparted a feeling that a real battle was occurring like a living world so to speak.
Would being an military officer thus directing formations give you the same thrill of cutting down targets en mass rather than relying on uber l33t stats or the stereotypical WMD spells? I blame MMOs for the proliferation of classic boxed class roles that in the end don't allow much in the way of originality role wise.Edited By Rulian on 11/08/07 15:19 | |
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DeathnightF1
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 03:29PM |
Ah, while i would like to occasionally face up to large quantities of weak foes. For the most part i would rather go up against less but strong foes. By that i dont mean 2 or 3 enemies at once i mean maybe 10 or so, but not dozens (except for the occasional large fight).
this seems to work against the mass destruction mage.
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Radisshu
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 04:56PM |
I think magic should ***ing destroy anyone that attempts to attack it without any backup plans or strategy. And I like playing fighters and rogues btw, it's just so much more satisfying fighting a wizard when s/he's actually posing a challenge. Breaking him/her strength down one by one then EXPOSING THE WEAKNESS. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
EDIT: This usually means "get another mage to summon tons of weak monsters to waste the enemy's spells and then wait for his/her defences to wear off" though.Edited By Radisshu on 11/08/07 16:57 | |
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DeathnightF1
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 06:22PM |
im just anti slay living etc spells
magic missiles, lower summons okay, but summong higher demons is just a bit over the top, while instantly cutting people's lifeforce is a bit over the top.
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Juhy
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 06:24PM |
I agree with ^. Fighting a mage, then exploiting a weakness, using a smart plan, and destorying him is so great.
Oh, one thing oblivion did with mages that I hated. well, two. First one, the visuals always look the same, no matter how strong a spell. So the mage casts a spell that looks like it might do 1 damage, or 100, you dont know until it hits. The other thing is that mages start running away. Its just a bore to chase them.. no fun.
However, tough melees proivde a nice challenge, as well. (for mages as well as fighters)
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Planetus
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Posted: Thursday, 08 November 2007 11:00PM |
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that mages shouldn't play a role in combat, I was just suggesting that there should be far more Hold, Slow, Confusion, Domination, Heal, Summon X, Timestop, etc. type spells than there are Magic Missle, Flame Arrow, Horrid Wilting, Fireball, Death Fog, etc. I'm talking about a magic system where the raw damage is dealt by the fighters and physical effects, but mages expose weaknesses, negate strengths, and the like. Think about the lore of old. How often does the mage or witch summon a fireball to kill someone? How often do they turn them into frogs, curse them with 1000 years of sleep, trick them with a geas, or turn them into stone, slaves, undead, etc.? I want to see magic doing less HP damage and more other things.
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"Elminster this, Elminster that! Give ME two thousand years and a pointy hat and I'll kick his arse!" -Edwin, BG | |
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Althernai
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From: St. Genis |
Posted: Friday, 09 November 2007 01:32AM |
Quote: Posted 11/08/07 23:00 (GMT) by Planetus
Oh, I wasn't suggesting that mages shouldn't play a role in combat, I was just suggesting that there should be far more Hold, Slow, Confusion, Domination, Heal, Summon X, Timestop, etc. type spells than there are Magic Missle, Flame Arrow, Horrid Wilting, Fireball, Death Fog, etc.
In all of my years of playing RPGs, I've found the vast majority of offensive spells that do not deal serious damage practically useless (with a few significant exceptions). With a damage spell, at least you know it will deal some damage to everyone not immune to a damage type. With status-effect spells, everyone you would actually want to use them on is either completely immune to it outright or will save against the effect 95% of the time. Sure, you can use them on random critters -- but why bother? They're not going to live long enough for it to make any difference and if you had used a damage spell instead their lives would be even shorter.
The exceptions are insta-kill spells (Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee, etc.), spells like the Bigby's line (which don't allow an ordinary save and are ridiculously difficult to resist) and spells like Time Stop... actually, there are no spells like Time Stop; it's in a category of its own (I'm not even sure whether to count it as an offensive spell or a buff). | |
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CHAw
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Posted: Friday, 09 November 2007 04:28AM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/07 01:32 (GMT) by Althernai
In all of my years of playing RPGs, I've found the vast majority of offensive spells that do not deal serious damage practically useless (with a few significant exceptions). With a damage spell, at least you know it will deal some damage to everyone not immune to a damage type. With status-effect spells, everyone you would actually want to use them on is either completely immune to it outright or will save against the effect 95% of the time. Sure, you can use them on random critters -- but why bother? They're not going to live long enough for it to make any difference and if you had used a damage spell instead their lives would be even shorter.
The exceptions are insta-kill spells (Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee, etc.), spells like the Bigby's line (which don't allow an ordinary save and are ridiculously difficult to resist) and spells like Time Stop... actually, there are no spells like Time Stop; it's in a category of its own (I'm not even sure whether to count it as an offensive spell or a buff).
It's funny, but I actually find that for me it's usually the opposite that is true. Maybe it's just that I've not played as many RPGs, or maybe it's just the types of RPGs I play. Or perhaps it's more to do with my play style.
However, in BG2, for example, I usually much preferred to cast Hold Person or Chaos rather than Fireball or Chain Lightning. While the latter two might inflict significant injury upon a group of opponents, that's all they would do. If it didn't kill them outright, I'd have to do something else in order to finish the engagement. Whereas casting the former two would tend to disable a number of opponents. Even if half of the enemies resisted the attack, that's still half of one's opponents effectively removed from the battle for the spell's duration. Usually, when used in conjunction with other spells and party members, this was enough to not only finish off their comrades, but to kill them while they were still helpless as well.
In another example (though I hate to use it, as it can only be called an RPG by the loosest of definitions), in Diablo II, I played a summoner Necromancer. In conjunction with my skeleton minions, it was far more safe and effective to curse enemies with negative effects and allow my minions to go to work on them than it was to attempt to support them with direct damage spells. Although it was possible to curse, and then use direct damage spells while my minions attacked, the only advantage of this approach was speed, and the resource consumption (in this case, consumption of mana) was liable to leave me vulnerable and unable to deploy a new curse or other spell should something unexpected occur. Moreover, the fact that a Necromancer (or, for that matter, a group of Necromancers) was only allowed to have a grand total of one single curse effect in place on each opponent seems indicative to me of the power of status effects, at least in that game.
In any case, I don't think Dragon Age is going to suffer the hit or miss spell effect issues present in the D&D ruleset. I seem to recall a developer mentioning that spells were going to be handled on a percentage resisted basis. So if, for example, Dragon Age had a spell with effects similar to that of D&D's Hold Monster, a target with 0% resistance would be held, but a target with 50% resistance would instead have their movement rate decreased by half. Or at least, that's how I interpreted the post. I believe the post to which I'm referring was by Georg Zoeller, though I don't remember the thread.
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Quote: Posted 09/15/09 13:25 (GMT) by SonsofNorthWind
CHAw-KHAAAAAN!
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Althernai
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From: St. Genis |
Posted: Friday, 09 November 2007 07:41AM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/07 04:28 (GMT) by CHAw
Or perhaps it's more to do with my play style.
However, in BG2, for example, I usually much preferred to cast Hold Person or Chaos rather than Fireball or Chain Lightning. While the latter two might inflict significant injury upon a group of opponents, that's all they would do. If it didn't kill them outright, I'd have to do something else in order to finish the engagement. Whereas casting the former two would tend to disable a number of opponents. Even if half of the enemies resisted the attack, that's still half of one's opponents effectively removed from the battle for the spell's duration.
Yes, but you still had to kill them somehow -- the damage still had to be dealt in the end. And if you used Chaos, they'd be running around randomly, making your warriors chase after them. It would still work, of course, but direct damage is faster and surer.
Quote: In another example (though I hate to use it, as it can only be called an RPG by the loosest of definitions), in Diablo II, I played a summoner Necromancer. In conjunction with my skeleton minions, it was far more safe and effective to curse enemies with negative effects and allow my minions to go to work on them than it was to attempt to support them with direct damage spells.
I will concede this one. That class was designed around summons and curses and it worked very well with them. But Diablo II is a very different style of combat from typical Bioware RPGs.
Quote: In any case, I don't think Dragon Age is going to suffer the hit or miss spell effect issues present in the D&D ruleset. I seem to recall a developer mentioning that spells were going to be handled on a percentage resisted basis.
We'll see. It is possible that the magic of DA will be more effective as buffs and debuffs than direct damage. But based on their previous RPGs, I doubt it. | |
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