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BioWare Forums  Forum Archives Old Dragon Age Forums Dragon Age (Old) Tactical party-control
Dragon Age (Old)
Radisshu
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
From: Sweden |
 Posted: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 07:01AM |
I know of the exploration view mode and the tactical view, but will those be interchangeable by the player (using a toggle, lawl) or will they be automatically switched depending on if you're currently doing combat or not?
And how will party-member controlling work out? Could I send an invisible (and if there is no invisibility, sneaking/hiding) character to scout the terrain or lure a target out to where my other characters are waiting, or will the party follow the leading character? | 
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Gecon
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Joined: 01 Aug 2002
From: Germany |
Posted: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 07:40AM |
They said you can permanently stay in one of these modes, if you want to.
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We are such stuff / As dreams are made on, and our little life / Is rounded with a sleep. - Prospero, The Tempest, by Shakespeare | |
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Radisshu
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Joined: 28 Jul 2002
From: Sweden |
Posted: Wednesday, 29 August 2007 10:13AM | |
That's great. | |
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Georg Zoeller
Senior Technical Designer
Joined: 27 May 2003
From: Austin, TX |
Posted: Thursday, 30 August 2007 10:45PM |
Control and Camera details are always subject to tweaking and optimization based on tester feedback, etc, so don't expect any definite statements about this topic for a while 
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Level 21 German Combat Monkey
Lead Systems Designer, Dragon Age: Origins. | |
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Cogitation
Game Owner
 Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
From: Berkeley, California |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 12:16AM |
I'm just hoping the control will be a lot easier than Neverwinter Nights.
I know there are people who were fine with it, but A. running in high resolution, the GUI was almost invisibly small. B. I had to constantly fight the camera. C. It just didn't feel nearly as easy to use as the Infinity Engine days.
If we're going to have multiple camera angles to choose from, please spend time getting them down to fool-proof for the people who don't like adjusting the camera every minute, or who don't like remembering 4 or 5 different keyboard keys to adjust it.
<edit>
I thought Jade Empire (PC) did this just fine, though it would have been nice to see something besides the back of my PC. Kotor loses points for doing the same GUI becomes impossibly small at high resolution thing, and for not supporting widescreen (making the widescreen patch available look all kinds of terrible when applied.) It was still better than NWN though.Edited By Cogitation on 08/31/07 00:20 | |
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Willpower-in-Japan
Game Owner
 Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
From: Nagoya, Japan |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 12:22AM |
Quote: Posted 08/31/07 00:16 (GMT) by Cogitation
I'm just hoping the control will be a lot easier than Neverwinter Nights.
I know there are people who were fine with it, but A. running in high resolution, the GUI was almost invisibly small. B. I had to constantly fight the camera. C. It just didn't feel nearly as easy to use as the Infinity Engine days.
If we're going to have multiple camera angles to choose from, please spend time getting them down to fool-proof for the people who don't like adjusting the camera every minute, or who don't like remembering 4 or 5 different keyboard keys to adjust it.
Something else, with regards to the controls of the camera:
Please, please, please, please
allow for the use of a mouse with more than 3 buttons, and make those buttons configurable.
the middle wheel button (pressing the wheel in) was permanently damaged by NWN on my expensive, relatively new mouse. I was very sad. I would have loved to be able to bind the camera control to one of the other (more easily accessible for such an important function) buttons, but could not.
Seems a bit petty, but there are quite a number of games that don't allow for the binding of multiple mouse buttons, and it is really a waste, sometimes frustrating. | |
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Jakob Persson
Joined: 11 Dec 2005 |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 12:29AM |
Quote: Posted 08/31/07 00:16 (GMT) by Cogitation
I'm just hoping the control will be a lot easier than Neverwinter Nights.
I know there are people who were fine with it, but A. running in high resolution, the GUI was almost invisibly small. B. I had to constantly fight the camera. C. It just didn't feel nearly as easy to use as the Infinity Engine days.
If we're going to have multiple camera angles to choose from, please spend time getting them down to fool-proof for the people who don't like adjusting the camera every minute, or who don't like remembering 4 or 5 different keyboard keys to adjust it.
<edit>
I thought Jade Empire (PC) did this just fine, though it would have been nice to see something besides the back of my PC. Kotor loses points for doing the same GUI becomes impossibly small at high resolution thing, and for not supporting widescreen (making the widescreen patch available look all kinds of terrible when applied.) It was still better than NWN though.
Yes please give us good static views with plenty of OVERVIEW, I tried out NWN for 5 minutes or so before deciding to give it a pass, mainly because of the camera control (and partly because of the insta-rest feature), and went back to BG once more.
Yes I'm a zealot when it comes to the interface..Edited By Jakob Persson on 08/31/07 00:30 | |
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gromnir's ghost
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
From: The Land of Almost Banned |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 06:34PM |
need more jocks doing game development. Gromnir mentioned this a while ago, and got some positive developer feedback, but have not heard much in quite some time. your party is kinda like a sports team, no? each member of your team fills a role. team sports, no matter how fluid the action, invariably utilize "plays." for some odd reason the called play has never been utilized in squad-based tactical combat crpgs. is such an obvious ai improvement that nobody has actually considered? heck, military units always use some variation o' the play... 'cause give individual commands to every member of a unit is unwieldy at best.
...
always we hear 'bout how such'n such game is gonna be revolutionary. *snort* rare is that the case. add called plays to game would actually be revolutionary... a whole new dimension to commanding your party during combats.
HA! Good Fun!
_________________
"The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?" - w.b. yeats | |
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DigitalOrigami
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
From: Great White North (Beauty, eh?) |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 07:34PM |
"No battleplan survives contact with the enemy."
-Helmuth von Moltke the Elder
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The angels stole my phone box. | |
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gromnir's ghost
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
From: The Land of Almost Banned |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 07:59PM |
eh?
need more jocks. if opponents do the unexpected, then change play. you can always leave option to micromanage, but plays is what most of us do anyways, whether we know or not. same basic kinda tactics everytime we faces a certain kinda opponent? make into a play rather than tedious and repetitive ordering of each unit in our command.
btw, helmuth would not have suggested not having no plan at all, would he? 'course not. nelson at trafalgar? had great initial plan AND he left individual captains free to improvise. "No captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of the enemy."
HA! Good Fun!
_________________
"The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?" - w.b. yeatsEdited By gromnir's ghost on 08/31/07 20:03 | |
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DigitalOrigami
Game Owner
SW: KotOR Xbox
Jade Empire
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 28 Jul 2006
From: Great White North (Beauty, eh?) |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 08:09PM |
*scratches head*
Well, I suppose if we need someone to get drunk, act obnoxious, throw up on the furniture, and try to mate with everything that moves, we could call in the jocks.
But I'd hate to take them away from their drugs, hookers, and dog-fighting bets.... 
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"But, this can be stopped?"
"No. I came all this way to show you this because nothing can be done, because I like the way your pupils dilate in the presence of total planetary armageddon." | |
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Planetus
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
NWN 2
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 09:12PM |
One more request for the cameras: if any of them focus on the player, focus on his/her head or face, NOT THE NAVEL. This is something I found very annoying in NWN2. If I try to have the camera follow the PC, the PC's body gets in the way. If I try to have it hover over the player, it looks down on an unwieldly small area. At least if it focused on the head, I could effectively follow.
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Quote: Posted 06/14/07 12:00 (GMT) by Zelphi
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gromnir's ghost
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
From: The Land of Almost Banned |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 09:23PM |
Quote: Posted 08/31/07 20:09 (GMT) by DigitalOrigami *scratches head* Well, I suppose if we need someone to get drunk, act obnoxious, throw up on the furniture, and try to mate with everything that moves, we could call in the jocks. But I'd hate to take them away from their drugs, hookers, and dog-fighting bets....
*shrug*
speaking to a board full o' uncoordinated geeks and nerdlings who is depending on bioware to provide 'em their most significant romantic encounter of the past three years obviously gots its limitations. sweat is NOT your soul leaching out o' your body... exercise need not be shunned.
and even though the biowarians is a physically unimpressive lot (sorry,) they does have a hockey team, no? heck, we suspect that some small number o' biowarians like sports... though they probably gotta compete and practice secretly 'lest they suffer the scorn and ridicule o' the morlocks who comprise the biowarian majority.
HA! Good Fun!
_________________
"The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?" - w.b. yeats | |
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Cogitation
Game Owner
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
From: Berkeley, California |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 10:12PM |
Quote: Posted 08/31/07 21:23 (GMT) by gromnir's ghost
speaking to a board full o' uncoordinated geeks and nerdlings who is depending on bioware to provide 'em their most significant romantic encounter of the past three years obviously gots its limitations. sweat is NOT your soul leaching out o' your body... exercise need not be shunned.
I must have been wrong, but I remember you being charming and humorous and not really that offensive at one point. Insulting the whole board with a ridiculous stereotype. Genius. 
I actually kind of like what you're talking about with the plays. It's an apt metaphor. A play I've used: 1. Send in high level thief to backstab toughest enemy. 2. Have mage throw fireball at thief. 3. Let bad guys and thief take the hit, with the thief hopefully evading. 4. Mop up what's left.
The only problem with making this a "play" that you could click a button and watch happen, is that if anything goes wrong, who do I want controlling all the individuals? Me, or the AI? And if I can interrupt the AI midstream, then what purpose does the play serve? It would be little more than a convenience so that you could click a button and watch, instead of clicking the button a few more times.
And I can't really think of many more plays that can be boiled down to only a few steps like this. You could include the "fighters go after enemy spellcasters, spellcasters hit enemy fighters with disabling magic" play, but now you're just talking about an AI script that whether or not it's worked very well up to now, has been in since around BG 2. | |
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Tsuga C
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
Joined: 19 Oct 2001
From: Michigan, USA |
Posted: Friday, 31 August 2007 10:21PM |
Quote: Posted 08/31/07 21:23 (GMT) by gromnir's ghost
...though they probably gotta compete and practice secretly 'lest they suffer the scorn and ridicule o' the morlocks who comprise the biowarian majority.
HA! Good Fun!
Bravo, Gromnir, bravo! Keep taking scalps, you magnificent savage. (One nit to pick: Eloi were the prey and Morlocks the predators.)
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"I do not call myself subject to much at all."--Hawkeye
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