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BioWare Forums  Forum Archives Old Dragon Age Forums Dragon Age (Old) Spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate 2
Dragon Age (Old)
Zalashkolina
Joined: 23 May 2006 |
 Posted: Sunday, 04 March 2007 08:37PM |
Hello. I want to say that BG2: SOA is the best game ever made in my opinion. The game world is very rich and has many quests and sub plots and so many levels of interactions, connections and complexity that it's amazing. The NPC's have the best-developed personalities I've seen in a computer game yet and are genuinely interactive: they have long story arcs of friendship, arguments and romances and they have their own connections in the world themselves (such as being friends or plain acquaintances of other NPC's and have their own plots and stories). And the plot is simply genius, since it is the best hybrid of an open plot (in nice games like BG1 and Morrowind) and a linear plot (in nice games like Diablo and Icewind dale II) which of course involves an epic story.
So please please please make this game a real spiritual successor of BG2. I mean after BG2 none of Bioware's games came that close to its level, well maybe KOTOR, but still it certainly wasn't an appropriate spiritual successor. So please try to do what you did again and this time there is a very good opportunity simply because you are not bound by any laws of any world. You create your own rules, your own game and your own story and that is a very good advantage. | 
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the-expatriate
Game Owner
 NWN
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
Mass Effect
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
From: Halifax NS, Canada |
Posted: Sunday, 04 March 2007 10:33PM |
I'm sure they'll do the best they can. You're not the only fan of past Bioware games with fond memories, looking for more.
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There cannot be two skies. -- Dak'kon | |
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Zalashkolina
Joined: 23 May 2006 |
Posted: Sunday, 04 March 2007 11:22PM |
Yes I think it's because they were trying new things each time, but I remember reading somewhere an interview of one of the developers about DA that this is going to be the Spiritual successor of BG2 so hopefully instead of trying new things they will try to recreate the very glorious past using the advanced present, and I too am shore they will do the best... (I only wanted to remind that the best is like BG2..  ) | |
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Kalgaleth
Game Owner
 NWN 2
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 |
Posted: Sunday, 04 March 2007 11:29PM | |
Keep in mind it's still a successor, they're not just trying to remake Baldurs Gate with a new engine. They'll be using the best ideas from all their games (More than likely). | |
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Sable Phoenix
Game Owner
 SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
Joined: 09 May 2006 |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 07:01AM |
Quote: Posted 03/04/07 20:37 (GMT) by Zalashkolina
Hello. I want to say that BG2: SOA is the best game ever made in my opinion.
<cough>Planescape:Torment</cough>
Quote: Posted 03/04/07 20:37 (GMT) by ZalashkolinaThe game world is very rich and has many quests and sub plots and so many levels of interactions, connections and complexity that it's amazing. The NPC's have the best-developed personalities I've seen in a computer game yet and are genuinely interactive: they have long story arcs of friendship, arguments and romances and they have their own connections in the world themselves (such as being friends or plain acquaintances of other NPC's and have their own plots and stories). And the plot is simply genius, since it is the best hybrid of an open plot (in nice games like BG1 and Morrowind) and a linear plot (in nice games like Diablo and Icewind dale II) which of course involves an epic story.
<cough>Planescape:Torment</cough>
I feel safe in assuming you haven't played it.
No offense meant to Bioware, their games are superlative and they consistently make the best RPGs in the industry. But the now-defunct Black Isle Studios' Planescape:Torment was one of a kind, and nothing else has ever matched it. With the demise of text-based storytelling in games, I doubt anything will for the next few generations, either. But if or when it finally happens, Bioware is the company to do it.Edited By Sable Phoenix on 03/05/07 07:03 | |
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Gecon
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
NWN 2: SoZ
Joined: 01 Aug 2002
From: Germany |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 02:38PM |
Sorry, but PS:T is actually a bad game in many respects.
- bad user interface
- trivialistic magic system
- rather poor battle
- overly text intensive dialog
- very little choice in respect to character (always the same guy)
- poor character customization
I'm not saying it wasnt fun - but BG2 was a lot more fun. For example: In BG2 had a TON of options to build your character - NWN2 easily tops this, but no other CRPG I know of tops this. And you had REAL romances in BG2 - IMHO the best romances in any game so far.
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We are such stuff / As dreams are made on, and our little life / Is rounded with a sleep. - Prospero, The Tempest, by ShakespeareEdited By Gecon on 03/05/07 14:39 | |
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Attalus
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
From: Athkatla, with Aribeth |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 02:55PM |
Quote: Posted 03/05/07 07:01 (GMT) by Sable Phoenix Quote: Posted 03/04/07 20:37 (GMT) by Zalashkolina
Hello. I want to say that BG2: SOA is the best game ever made in my opinion.
<cough>Planescape:Torment</cough> Quote: Posted 03/04/07 20:37 (GMT) by ZalashkolinaThe game world is very rich and has many quests and sub plots and so many levels of interactions, connections and complexity that it's amazing. The NPC's have the best-developed personalities I've seen in a computer game yet and are genuinely interactive: they have long story arcs of friendship, arguments and romances and they have their own connections in the world themselves (such as being friends or plain acquaintances of other NPC's and have their own plots and stories). And the plot is simply genius, since it is the best hybrid of an open plot (in nice games like BG1 and Morrowind) and a linear plot (in nice games like Diablo and Icewind dale II) which of course involves an epic story.
<cough>Planescape:Torment</cough> I feel safe in assuming you haven't played it. No offense meant to Bioware, their games are superlative and they consistently make the best RPGs in the industry. But the now-defunct Black Isle Studios' Planescape:Torment was one of a kind, and nothing else has ever matched it. With the demise of text-based storytelling in games, I doubt anything will for the next few generations, either. But if or when it finally happens, Bioware is the company to do it.
PS:T didn't actually suck, but Gecon's comments are well-taken. PS:T lacks replayability, mainly because the ending is so horrible. The only one that I can think of, offhand, that is worse, is KotOR2. I've played throug PS:T once, and have now officially lost count of the times I have played all the way through BG2 (more than twelve, I know for sure). *shrug* Different strokes for different folks.
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"I may have been the last of you before, but just let me show you schuttas some things that the Exile taught me to do with a lightsaber." -Brianna the Handmaiden's final speech to her sistersEdited By Attalus on 03/05/07 14:56 | |
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LdyShayna
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
From: Colorado |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 03:03PM |
BG 2 is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, and that BioWare is hoping to capture a similar feel with Dragon Age makes me very happy.
By contrast, Planescape doesn't make it on my favorites list, and I would be disappointed if BioWare said they wanted to make it a spititual successor of that game. As noted, different stroke for different folks.
Regardless, for me this statement from them hearkens back to party based combat, high replayability, great NPCs, and a play experience so engrossing and satisfying that I have sunk hundreds of hours enjoying it. I would be very, very happy if Dragon Age can follow through on my hopes.
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"Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly." - Plutarch (46 AD - 120 AD) | |
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TFVanguard
Game Owner
 NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
From: Colorado Springs |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 03:08PM |
Quote: I feel safe in assuming you haven't played it.
Well, that's funny, because I did play it, and I don't think there's ever been a more overrated game in all of gaming history than that juvenile heap of angst with shallow and narcissitic characters, uber-predicatability, prententious high-school psychanalysis in it. There was more character depth and good storytelling in Pools of Radiance (the original).
That Torment thing didn't server the crappy sales numbers that it DID get, and that wasn't much anyway.
So maybe, just maybe, some of us are completely fargin' sick of being told there's something wrong with us because we didn't like that pile of horse-droppings, or that if we didn't like it, we never played it... etc.
I played it. For me, it sucked. And if you continue to cite this piece of putrid feces as the 'best game ever' while simultaneously insulting everyone else who didn't like it with the pretentious 'oh you would love it if you REALLY liked gaming', don't be surprised if someone, sometime, writes up another rant like this one.
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TFVanguard
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
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Jade Empire
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
From: Colorado Springs |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 03:10PM |
Quote: The only one that I can think of, offhand, that is worse, is KotOR2.
Oh, that's not fair, you can't say that KOTOR2's ending sucked when they didn't bother actually making one.
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My Arrogance: "The biggest fear, and also biggest hope, that all gamers have is that - someday - they'll turn into someone like me." | |
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Attalus
Game Owner
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NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR Xbox
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire:SE
NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Mass Effect PC
Joined: 22 Jun 2002
From: Athkatla, with Aribeth |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 03:41PM |
Quote: Posted 03/05/07 15:10 (GMT) by TFVanguard Quote: The only one that I can think of, offhand, that is worse, is KotOR2.
Oh, that's not fair, you can't say that KOTOR2's ending sucked when they didn't bother actually making one.
:lol: That's a good one! What I HATED about it was the assumption it made that you wanted to go join Revan for the big 'crusade,' when all I wanted to do was get hitched with Brianna and raise a brood of Jediettes. They actually seemed to offer that option, then reneged.
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"I may have been the last of you before, but just let me show you schuttas some things that the Exile taught me to do with a lightsaber." -Brianna the Handmaiden's final speech to her sisters | |
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TFVanguard
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
From: Colorado Springs |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 03:55PM |
Well, risking getting OT.. it's not even clear that you ARE interested at all in what's going on with Revan. Heck, for that matter, I was wondering why the fleet didn't just bomb the crap out of the 'evil planet' and kill Kreya the old-fashioned way? ... ergh...
Well, let's just hope that Bioware's smart enough to know that not actually finishing your product is NOT an acceptable substitute for 'ambiguous atmosphere'.
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My Arrogance: "The biggest fear, and also biggest hope, that all gamers have is that - someday - they'll turn into someone like me." | |
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Zalashkolina
Joined: 23 May 2006 |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 05:29PM |
About PS:T, well I haven't played it, I started but didn't finish, the story is good but it lacks the depth of BG2, plus the controls are very annoying.
The most important things for me in an RPG are the: story, story and again story. And when I say story I don't just mean the main plot, but everything involved: the background, side quests, the setting, NPC's, the interactions with the world, replayability, the depth and breathing of the world and etc. These are the most important things that made BG2 good for most people.
And as far as I'm concern, Bioware can make DA in the old infinity engine as long as it will be similar in the above story elements to BG2.Edited By Zalashkolina on 03/05/07 17:34 | |
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TFVanguard
Game Owner
NWN
NWN: SoU
NWN: HotU
SW: KotOR PC
Jade Empire
Joined: 08 Jan 2002
From: Colorado Springs |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 05:40PM |
Quote: TFVanguard you are entitled to your opinion of course, however you (and Bioware developers) do need to understand that you are a minority in that opinion,
*dies laughing*
I'm going to show my arrogance here and not only content that my opinion on the gaming industry, and aspects of it, are not only in the majority, but also follow quite strong indicators of what will and won't work in the marketplace.
And I couple this with the data and material which back me up, such as sales numbers. Which, at the end of the day, game companies MUST pay attention to, or they don't get to be in business all that long.
Quote: The most important things for me in an RPG are the: story, story and again story. And when I say story I don't just mean the main plot,
No one, that I've seen, is arguing that the story shouldn't be deep. But being 'dark' doesn't neccessary (and, quite often, just doesn't) mean that it's automatically 'deep'.
More than that, but 'niche pandering', which is what is being demanded by some, would alienate a lot more in potential sales (evidenced by quite a number of dismal flops in the marketplace for this very reason) than it could possibly GAIN in sales.
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My Arrogance: "The biggest fear, and also biggest hope, that all gamers have is that - someday - they'll turn into someone like me." | |
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LawfulGoon
Game Owner
 NWN 2
NWN 2: MotB
Joined: 15 Nov 2006 |
Posted: Monday, 05 March 2007 06:10PM |
Quote: posted by Zalashkolina
The NPC's have the best-developed personalities I've seen in a computer game yet and are genuinely interactive: they have long story arcs of friendship, arguments and romances
DA seems to be built in that mold too. I clearly remember the writers stating that DA characters will have an ginormous amount of dialogue, their own ambition in life, which the player can nudge a little bit towards one direction or another, I think friendship with companions will be there (don't remember for sure), and there may be more than 1 romance for each gender.
Concerning PS:T, what I liked most about that game are the detailed descriptions.
Thanks to them, every zombie in the mortuary is unique. And the way an ordinary NPC like Nodd is presented, you can really feel that he went through a rough life, but the small favor you gave him really made him happy. And to thank you he gives you everything he owns, a pile of greasy rags wrapped around 11 copper pieces.
Also, the extensive dialogue options unlocked by a high intelligence or wisdom offers a lot of role-play possibilities. And that game offers kind and cruel options in equal measure.
I think it's the game that offers the most freedom in role-play, but it's true that it does not have as much replay value as BG2. Less banters and interjections too, but the interjections in PS:T are well made because you can respond to them.
I haven't finished the game yet, but the character Morte has a very interesting origin. It's also funny how he recants his origin to you through rose-tinted glasses while the protagonist remembers it very differently. | |
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