Quote: Just for the record, and those who are interested, I'll point out the fact that rape has happened in other games of ours, too. Like BG2. Viconia, in fact, tells you of how she was brutalized by a farmer and his two sons and then buried alive.

Of course it's not explicit. And of course it won't be explicit in DA, either. I would think that should go without saying, but that's what happens when you jump to conclusions based on a single phrase or word. A simple question like "you don't really have an overt theme of rape in the game, do you?" could have elicited the same response.

BG2 had some other pretty dark themes, as well, like child slavery... obviously there are degrees and degrees of darkness, and there was another thread just recently where I explained that relentless, hopeless darkness isn't what we're interested in. If there are evil acts being performed in the world, at the very least you should get the chance to find justice if you want to -- and that's part of what heroic fantasy is all about. To me, that's the best part of what "A Song of Ice and Fire" is all about -- the fact that the characters within it have difficult lives and find it difficult to do what is right makes the fact that most of them continue to struggle to do so all the more appealing. If you disagree, that's cool... but I believe the reference was to what we drew inspiration from, and not you.

And I'll leave it at that.

Edited By Attalus on 02/25/07 07:42

Quote:  Of course it's not explicit. And of course it won't be explicit in DA

Edited By VonChalay on 02/25/07 09:13

Quote: I'll just run out and take some pictures of the sky for you.

What? Wrong sort of atmosphere?

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 17:04 (GMT) by Juhy
but come on, concept art, screenshots, they capture the atmosphere OF THE GAME better than words. right? a picture is a 1000 words? or more? coommeee oooonnn

Edited By LdyShayna on 02/25/07 17:12

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 17:17 (GMT) by Attalus

I think it strange tnat none of the Devs have compared DA to NWN2, which I think is quite a dark game. I know, I know, not a Bioware product. But, neither was PST.

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 17:17 (GMT) by Attalus

I think it strange tnat none of the Devs have compared DA to NWN2, which I think is quite a dark game. I know, I know, not a Bioware product. But, neither was PST.

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 17:28 (GMT) by NocturnalMe

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 17:17 (GMT) by Attalus

I think it strange tnat none of the Devs have compared DA to NWN2, which I think is quite a dark game. I know, I know, not a Bioware product. But, neither was PST.

I've played NWN2, and it's really not dark. I mean, yes, a few parts were a bit, but on the whole no. And PS: T is quite a few shades darker than NWN2. NWN2 is like "Darkness--the lite version"

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 18:20 (GMT) by Attalus

Certainly the NPCs were, erm, unique, in PST, but the screenshots I have seen of DA don't look at all like the Hive or the other locations in Sigil, much less Curst and Curst Gone and Baator. Those aspects, I've posted before, were a major turn off to two of the more active gamers I know, my older boy and my wife, both of whom refused to play on the grounds that it "looked too depressing." To say nothing of the scarred hulk of TNO, which was a turnoff even for me.

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 18:57 (GMT) by Althernai

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 18:20 (GMT) by Attalus

Certainly the NPCs were, erm, unique, in PST, but the screenshots I have seen of DA don't look at all like the Hive or the other locations in Sigil, much less Curst and Curst Gone and Baator. Those aspects, I've posted before, were a major turn off to two of the more active gamers I know, my older boy and my wife, both of whom refused to play on the grounds that it "looked too depressing." To say nothing of the scarred hulk of TNO, which was a turnoff even for me.

But if you ignore the background, PS:T was not actually all that depressing until the very end. Yes, the world as a rule was a pretty rotten place... but you could make things better. You couldn't make a permanent dent in the squalid nature of the Hive, but you could help a lot of people. You could make the people in Curst cooperate and redeem a fallen angel.

It's only the ending that made PS:T depressing. I've seen complaints here about Disney endings and the like, but frankly, I'll take even that strawman over the wonderful choice between madness, oblivion and damnation.

Edited By Attalus on 02/25/07 19:30

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 19:29 (GMT) by Attalus

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 18:57 (GMT) by Althernai

Quote: Posted 02/25/07 18:20 (GMT) by Attalus

Certainly the NPCs were, erm, unique, in PST, but the screenshots I have seen of DA don't look at all like the Hive or the other locations in Sigil, much less Curst and Curst Gone and Baator. Those aspects, I've posted before, were a major turn off to two of the more active gamers I know, my older boy and my wife, both of whom refused to play on the grounds that it "looked too depressing." To say nothing of the scarred hulk of TNO, which was a turnoff even for me.

But if you ignore the background, PS:T was not actually all that depressing until the very end. Yes, the world as a rule was a pretty rotten place... but you could make things better. You couldn't make a permanent dent in the squalid nature of the Hive, but you could help a lot of people. You could make the people in Curst cooperate and redeem a fallen angel.

It's only the ending that made PS:T depressing. I've seen complaints here about Disney endings and the like, but frankly, I'll take even that strawman over the wonderful choice between madness, oblivion and damnation.

But the point was made that, though NWN2 would seem to qualify as a "Dark Game," it is described as "Lite" because it doesn't have the 'sinister environment', bizarre NPCs, and scarrred PC of PST. I am simply arguing that NWN2 is a dark enough story on its own merits as a story, and that even if you don't get the 'sinister environment,' etc., that is as dark a game as you are going to get. Heck, they wiped out two entire villages, one of which you knew everybody in; you were betrayed by at least one, more often two or more of your companions, are put on trial for your life, survive several assassination attempts, two of your companions were killed without chance of resurrection, etc.

Edited By NocturnalMe on 02/25/07 20:18