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BioWare Forums  Forum Index Baldur's Gate II Series Baldur's Gate II Gameplay (Spoilers!) Six Man Party using One Non-Arcane Class for all PCs & NPCs
Baldur's Gate II Gameplay (Spoilers!)
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corey_russell
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
From: Medford, OR, USA |
 Posted: Thursday, 05 November 2009 12:43AM |
Thanks for your offer Irrbloss. While I have heard of some good things about the fixpack (Azuredge actually doing what its description says it does), also some negative, so don't want the fixpack just yet.
The fact of the matter is there are reasonable arguments for both sides. Fixpack makers contend how can monks use "arcane" wands (the game NEVER refers to them by such a term, which in itself makes the premise suspect) since they can't cast arcane spells. However, the flip side says well just because you can't use spells doesn't mean you can't use all wands, number of wands, even ones with arcane spell equivalent (magic missile wand) can be used by any class. So bottom line, Bioware can make any class they want be able to use any wand they want. Which makes changing it by 3rd party suspect.
When an item doesn't do what is clearly intended by its description, or if a description is clearly saying what the weapon/armor etc. really does, then I'm all for those fixes. When the fix can be controversial, should just be left alone (unless of course the people fixing it is Bioware in which case they can do whatever they want).
Guess I'm done, only so many times you can beat a horse to death. Thanks for the discussion Irrbloss, was useful to me. Since there is an easy solution for those that care strongly either way (want AoP fix install fixpack, don't want at all, don't install it) it's all good. | 
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ussnorway
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Thursday, 05 November 2009 04:07AM |
Quote: Posted 11/04/09 16:28 (GMT) by corey_russell
The invisibility is hurting yes, the dragon would whack my guys while under mislead, and can't even fight back till we eliminate the copy. I have the book and can use it. It is currently set for "Spell Turning", what many people consider the best one. I can try turning the page and see what I get, but for some reason thought spell turning was later than true seeing. I have nothing to lose at this point so will try turning the pages and see if I get lucky. If I turn the page and get burning hands, its over.
The order of the pages is random (fixpack is irrelevant) but you can’t get the same page twice & if you turn the page and get burning hands, then yes its over for the book but there are some other items that allow detect invisibility i.e. can your monks carry a sword?
As for people considering "Spell Turning", the best one? Well that’s highly subjective to both your party’s strengths/ weaknesses & play style. For example my rangers consider their best advantage to be high melee crunch value, therefore my party motto is “do unto others BEFORE they can do it, unto us!” If I can’t hit the bad guys, that’s a problem but if I can’t hit the bad guys while the bad guys can hit me then that’s a disaster, hence true sight becomes more valuable to my party than a spell turning especially if I know I can defend against that spell in other ways.
_________________
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed. | |
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corey_russell
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
From: Medford, OR, USA |
Posted: Thursday, 05 November 2009 04:26PM |
In my all monk game I did about 6 reloads, must have turned the pages like 100 times, maybe more, but finally got True Seeing.
Tried to fight the dragon few times and both times the guy with the book was either feared or killed immediately when Draconis hit the dragon form. So not really getting the benefit of it yet. Will try again tonight. | |
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rollovermonster
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
From: the first star on the right... |
Posted: Thursday, 05 November 2009 06:22PM |
Whilst I'm also a great believer in the FixPack, I would tend to agree with corey_russell.
Since some wands, ie magic missile, can be used by all classes, I don't see why they can't all be used. For me, the only restriction should be an INT limit (wands being complicated things after all), which would tend to restrict the fighter classes anyway as they would tend to lower INT.
Maybe then have different INT limits for different wands to reflect more complicated ones? | |
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ussnorway
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Friday, 06 November 2009 03:17AM |
Quote: Posted 11/05/09 16:26 (GMT) by corey_russell
In my all monk game I did about 6 reloads, must have turned the pages like 100 times, maybe more, but finally got True Seeing.
Tried to fight the dragon few times and both times the guy with the book was either feared or killed immediately when Draconis hit the dragon form. So not really getting the benefit of it yet. Will try again tonight.
I have to assume all manner of buffs are going onto your monks during the course of this fight but I believe a protection from magic scroll would protect you against the dragon fear...
As I recall this fight he basically jumps you as soon as you enter the map but can you stun or perhaps kite him around while he is in his human form in order to have time to buff up for the fight?
This is still a dragon after all!
_________________
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed. | |
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corey_russell
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
From: Medford, OR, USA |
Posted: Friday, 06 November 2009 05:10AM |
Quote: Posted 11/06/09 03:17 (GMT) by ussnorway
(quote)Posted 11/05/09 16:26 (GMT) by corey_russell
In my all monk game I did about 6 reloads, must have turned the pages like 100 times, maybe more, but finally got True Seeing.
Tried to fight the dragon few times and both times the guy with the book was either feared or killed immediately when Draconis hit the dragon form. So not really getting the benefit of it yet. Will try again tonight.
(quote)
I have to assume all manner of buffs are going onto your monks during the course of this fight but I believe a protection from magic scroll would protect you against the dragon fear...
(quote)
Don't have much in the ways of buffs only HLAs. Have very few potions left. But have tried with buffs with no avail.
Used those prot magic scrolls against Irenicus. Problem is need everyone to slam the human form, but when he changes to Dragon form, he buffets/fears and monks are disorganized and if we try to get close to use any HLAs any monk falls in 3 hits. Plus he will shadow door & heal, plus mislead and get free hits quite a problem for this group. | |
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ussnorway
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Friday, 06 November 2009 05:05PM |
Quote: Posted 11/06/09 05:10 (GMT) by corey_russell
Don't have much in the ways of buffs only HLAs. Have very few potions left. But have tried with buffs with no avail.
Used those prot magic scrolls against Irenicus. Problem is need everyone to slam the human form, but when he changes to Dragon form, he buffets/fears and monks are disorganized and if we try to get close to use any HLAs any monk falls in 3 hits. Plus he will shadow door & heal, plus mislead and get free hits quite a problem for this group.
This boss is not a “just come as you are” type dragon but is considered by many (my self included) to be the hardest fight in the game i.e. forget about cheese and just bring the entire salad. If you don’t have any scrolls of protection "against any thing except the colour blue", plus potions of invisibility, heroism & healing or the cash & earlier saves to go acquire some then I hate to say it but you are probably screwed.
_________________
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed. | |
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corey_russell
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
From: Medford, OR, USA |
Posted: Friday, 06 November 2009 08:54PM |
Quote: Posted 11/06/09 17:05 (GMT) by ussnorway Quote: Posted 11/06/09 05:10 (GMT) by corey_russell
Don't have much in the ways of buffs only HLAs. Have very few potions left. But have tried with buffs with no avail.
Used those prot magic scrolls against Irenicus. Problem is need everyone to slam the human form, but when he changes to Dragon form, he buffets/fears and monks are disorganized and if we try to get close to use any HLAs any monk falls in 3 hits. Plus he will shadow door & heal, plus mislead and get free hits quite a problem for this group.
This boss is not a “just come as you are” type dragon but is considered by many ( my self included) to be the hardest fight in the game i.e. forget about cheese and just bring the entire salad. If you don’t have any scrolls of protection "against any thing except the colour blue", plus potions of invisibility, heroism & healing or the cash & earlier saves to go acquire some then I hate to say it but you are probably screwed.
I have lots of potions of invisibility and healing. I do potion heals, but he hits so hard/fast he often overwhelms the guy trying to heal himself (or interrupt the guy trying to potion I hate how they do that, it's hard to tell if they are working on my order or got interrupted). As for potions of invisibility I got tons, but how would that help me? As for being "screwed", it's quite possible...if I can't get ideas for this fight it's over.
What's interesting about this in my all paladin run, they defeated Draconis the first time, but one paladin got chunked. So we tried again and won without any loss, and in fact took very little damage. The difference there was my paladins had TWO inquisitors, they were dispelling/true seeing all the time, so the dragons magic protections were useless against that group. No such advantage with the monks.Edited By corey_russell on 11/06/09 20:57 | |
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ussnorway
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Saturday, 07 November 2009 02:28AM |
In my thief game I kited him around a lot a.k.a. “brave, brave Sir Robin!” style until he ran out of true sight.
Stand there and dare him to hit you probably does work well for fighter/ paladin types but as I understand it a monk is basically a buff marshal artist in a dress?
... I remember you saying wands are allowed so have you tried the old wand of summon LOTS & LOTS of monsters trick or (& I shudder to suggest it but) can you wish for those 50 mean nasty bunnies!
Sorry, if this sounds unhelpful & no I don’t have much of a clue about monks but the main idea I’m going for here is overwhelm his defences with targets while your hasted slayer rips him a new back-side.
_________________
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed. | |
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ussnorway
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Saturday, 07 November 2009 12:21PM |
The Rangers fifth update (Under-dark):
We had to return to Umar hills in order to settle an extensive logging/ mithril mining problem before it could cultivate into violence. Next we visited Trademeet and agreed to hunt down a “bad old pussy cat” so that the Djinn would allow trade back into the town. The leader of Trademeet also tried to rope us into solving his animal problem but we turned him down. Do we LOOK like druids to you?
Spellhold;
Well the S&M was lots of fun so lets do it again some time, but young Imoen was a little freaked out from "the torture and all", so we told her to go back to Athkatla and rest up & we skipped off after Irenicus. We were enjoying a nice sail around the islands but the Githyanki crashed the party (literally) and next thing we are talking to shark men about their problems... you know the usual male issues, they want to take over the world but can’t agree on who gets the chicks. Arya suggested tossing for it but apparently shark coins have a "HEAD" on both sides so we solved the stalemate by killing everyone. The moral here is “if they can’t play nice then no one should get it”.
Under-dark;
Our heroine is currently resting up before entering the beholder lair because the Drow have this weird initiation thing where you have to bring them the blood from a hive brain &/or an eye stalk from an elder beholder. Yuck, Arya is not carrying that around!
_________________
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed. | |
|
ussnorway
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Joined: 13 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Sunday, 08 November 2009 04:26PM |
The Rangers Sixth update (Finished):
Under-dark;
Our party set a speed kill record with the entire under-dark cleared in about an hour of real time playing. I know the game backwards but wow rangers (esp. Archers) don’t muck around!
Athkatla;
We had to return to find Bodhi and the bottle blond so & so makes a grab at my girl friend before I can slap her, “Ok well that’s war!”. Archers are so overpowered its just not even a challenge!
Irenicus;
First time we just run away until his immunity dropped then charged him. I not 100% sure who got the kill but lets just say, blink and you missed it. He didn’t last much longer the second time with massed firepower making almost instant kills of his peons and with the book of spells “True Sight” allowing me to hit him he once again died as soon as his immunity fell.
Conclusion;
To be blatantly honest the only thing that caused any trouble for them was fear. I don’t know if that’s because I geared them up wrong or they just rolled badly but regardless the last ½ of the game was a total cake walk with the two archers competing for the most kills & the only near call being when every one but Valygar got feared by the black dragon at the start of the fight. We killed him 1st time & no body died (Valygar literally soloed him).
Finishing stats;
Slayer = Arya DragonBane
Beastmaster racial = dragons
Most powerful vanquished = Ulitharid Final level = 17
2. Lynn DragonBane Archer racial = dragons
Most powerful vanquished = Bodhi Final level = 17
3. Timmy DeadEye Archer racial = Dragons
Most powerful vanquished = Firkraag Final level = 16
4. Sarah
Class: Ranger racial = Vampires
Most powerful vanquished = Deirex Final level = 16
5. Minsc
Most powerful vanquished = Balor Final level = 17
6. Valygar
Most powerful vanquished = Thaxllissillyia Final level = 16
_________________
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed. | |
|
Incantatar
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 08:31AM |
What about using Mazzy in an all Paladin party? Would that be stretching the rules to much?
She is sort of a halfling Paladin and i really like speaking NPCs.
If allowed i would enter with a Paladin group.
PC:Cavalier
NPC:Keldorn
NPC:Mazzy
NPC:Saerileth
PC2:Undead Hunter
PC3:Inquisitor
I'll start when i finish DA:O.Edited By Incantatar on 11/09/09 08:31 | |
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corey_russell
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
From: Medford, OR, USA |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 02:17PM |
Quote: Posted 11/07/09 02:28 (GMT) by ussnorway
In my thief game I kited him around a lot a.k.a. “brave, brave Sir Robin!” style until he ran out of true sight.
Stand there and dare him to hit you probably does work well for fighter/ paladin types but as I understand it a monk is basically a buff marshal artist in a dress?
... I remember you saying wands are allowed so have you tried the old wand of summon LOTS & LOTS of monsters trick or (& I shudder to suggest it but) can you wish for those 50 mean nasty bunnies!
Sorry, if this sounds unhelpful & no I don’t have much of a clue about monks but the main idea I’m going for here is overwhelm his defences with targets while your hasted slayer rips him a new back-side.
Hasted Slayer...not a bad idea, will give that a shot. | |
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corey_russell
Joined: 27 Jan 2009
From: Medford, OR, USA |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 02:21PM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 08:31 (GMT) by Incantatar
What about using Mazzy in an all Paladin party? Would that be stretching the rules to much?
She is sort of a halfling Paladin and i really like speaking NPCs.
If allowed i would enter with a Paladin group.
PC:Cavalier
NPC:Keldorn
NPC:Mazzy
NPC:Saerileth
PC2:Undead Hunter
PC3:Inquisitor
I'll start when i finish DA:O.
Congratulations USSnorway on your ranger victory. As the using Mazzy -- she is a fighter, and a wanna-be paladin, but is not a paladin. Note that other players that desperately wanted banter shadowkeeped some NPCs to what they wanted. So you could shadowkeep Mazzy to a paladin of some type and then that would fit the rules. | |
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Incantatar
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 |
Posted: Monday, 09 November 2009 02:50PM |
Quote: Posted 11/09/09 14:21 (GMT) by corey_russell
As the using Mazzy -- she is a fighter, and a wanna-be paladin, but is not a paladin. Note that other players that desperately wanted banter shadowkeeped some NPCs to what they wanted. So you could shadowkeep Mazzy to a paladin of some type and then that would fit the rules.
Well, i understand that but i won't disturb the Gygaxian Spirits and give a non-human the actual title. 
I reconsidered and thinking now about an all priest party since i love Viconia and get bored without spell strategies. | |
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