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BioWare Forums  Forum Archives Old Dragon Age Forums Dragon Age (Old) Definition of a Dwarf
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Klingon Mage
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Joined: 23 Jun 2002 |
 Posted: Thursday, 17 November 2005 05:59PM |
Interesting topic, to be sure. One might want to take a look at WoTCs "Eberron" campaign setting, and particularly at what Keith did with Halflings. Very interesting diversion there. Oh yes, they are still stealthy, crafty little devils, in many ways reminiscent of the halflings of Calimshan in FR. However, their culture seems more like mongols or tatars than the pastoral little fellows puffing on pipes and taking long walks in the woods of Tolkien. The Raptors they ride aren't bad, either. 
-KM
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David Gaider
Lead Writer
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: Edmonton, AB |
Posted: Thursday, 17 November 2005 06:02PM |
Quote: Posted 11/17/05 17:59:46 (GMT) by Klingon Mage Interesting topic, to be sure. One might want to take a look at WoTCs "Eberron" campaign setting, and particularly at what Keith did with Halflings. Very interesting diversion there. Oh yes, they are still stealthy, crafty little devils, in many ways reminiscent of the halflings of Calimshan in FR. However, their culture seems more like mongols or tatars than the pastoral little fellows puffing on pipes and taking long walks in the woods of Tolkien. The Raptors they ride aren't bad, either.
Dark Sun had some particularly good re-interpretations of the races -- they were recognizeable, but at the same time very different. The halflings especially were cool (and viciously cannibalistic!). I remember putting them into the Planar Sphere in BG2 with a bit of glee. 
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Zevran: "Hello my stocky little friend!"
Oghren: "Huh. You got small breasts for a gal."
Zevran: "Ah. This is where we begin the typical dwarven/elven rivalry, is it?"
Oghren: "Nahhh." | |
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Melirinda
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Posted: Thursday, 17 November 2005 06:10PM |
Yes, those cannibalistic halflings were a surprise...
My favorite in the non-Tolkienistic fantasy races representation are Tad William's Trolls. They are basically small, fierce mountain barbarian nation, that ride goats, wield spears and have knowledgeable shamans. And they are good. And have no problems with the sun.
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Kolomir
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From: Lancaster |
Posted: Thursday, 17 November 2005 10:08PM |
Quote: Posted 11/15/05 08:29:02 (GMT) by Samurai RoadkiLL whoa, whoa. making dwarves more interesting is one thing. but making non-boring humans, thats just madness. Quote: Posted 11/14/05 02:15:15 (GMT) by johnnyriot999 Quote: Posted 11/14/05 01:55:28 (GMT) by Samurai RoadkiLL
or maybe they are more like french aristocrats who like to fly kites and go kayaking in the ocean.
That's not even worth joking about.
apparently people are not seeing the supreme awesome potential of my brilliant concept, so I made a picture. Now tell me with a straight face that this isn't what you want to see for dwarves in dragon age. click here 
Well done, now there's hot chocolate all over my kitchen, freshly sprayed from my mouth. It's a sod to clean, you know!
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johnnyriot999
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 Mass Effect PC
Joined: 05 Aug 2005 |
Posted: Thursday, 17 November 2005 10:33PM |
Quote: Posted 11/15/05 08:29:02 (GMT) by Samurai RoadkiLL whoa, whoa. making dwarves more interesting is one thing. but making non-boring humans, thats just madness. Quote: Posted 11/14/05 02:15:15 (GMT) by johnnyriot999 Quote: Posted 11/14/05 01:55:28 (GMT) by Samurai RoadkiLL
or maybe they are more like french aristocrats who like to fly kites and go kayaking in the ocean.
That's not even worth joking about.
apparently people are not seeing the supreme awesome potential of my brilliant concept, so I made a picture. Now tell me with a straight face that this isn't what you want to see for dwarves in dragon age. click here
Well I've got my custom portrait for the "exiled Dwarven prince" character. No wonder he was exiled.
Actually, he looks a lil' bit like Prince. Good job!
P.S. If you want to change elves around, why not go back to the pre-Tolkien idea of elves when they were nothing better those bastards from Keebler.
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"China is a big country filled with many Chinese people." - Gerald FordEdited By johnnyriot999 on 11/17/05 22:44 | |
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Grey Wolf
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Joined: 17 Oct 2001 |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 02:50AM | |
The Tolkien concept of races is really derived from the Norse, IIRC. There's always other options to use, though, such as the Celtic sidhe, and many others.. | |
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Ellderon Starsunder
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 NWN
Joined: 27 Jun 2004
From: Croatia |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 10:58AM |
Quote: Posted 11/17/05 17:42:11 (GMT) by David Gaider Quote: Don't get me wrong, if elves as a race are superoir most people will only select them in charachter creation.
However, if all races are equal then it reeks of ..well..makes little sense really..
It makes less sense to put in races with built-in imbalances. I'd rather not have them in the world at all at that point.
I ment that all civilizations/races/cultures are not perfectly balanced. Some are more advanced and more powerfull. (Take USA and take some bananna state) It's as simple as that.
(/quote)
Oh, sure, there's no imbalance in that. 
So it would be okay to make elves physically superior and have all sorts of bonuses, so long as they didn't earn experience any faster than humans? And if they don't get those bonuses, isn't that making them artificially equal to humans (what you said wouldn't make sense up above)?
I see no reason to make elves the most powerful race, period, not in any sense. That doesn't mean there will be artificial balances between the races... this isn't an MMORPG, after all... but they'll have whatever traits make sense for them, make them interesting to play and don't make them a required choice because they have no drawbacks and are better than all the others at everything.(/quote)
there must have been some misunderstanding here. I never said elves should be physicly supeior in everything.
What I say is elves live longer and have more time to learn and perfect their skills, that's why an average elf (let's say 500-10000 years old?) is superior to an average human.
But an 40 year old human and an 40 year old elf are more or less equal.
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Melirinda
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Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 03:23PM |
Quote: But an 40 year old human and an 40 year old elf are more or less equal.
Elves do not mature till the age of 120. 40 yo elf is still a child. And no, Drizzt is not an indicator of normal elven development, since the drow are so screwed up by the contradictory references, that it hurts.
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David Gaider
Lead Writer
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: Edmonton, AB |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 03:59PM |
Quote: Posted 11/18/05 15:23:58 (GMT) by Melirinda Quote: But an 40 year old human and an 40 year old elf are more or less equal.
Elves do not mature till the age of 120. 40 yo elf is still a child. And no, Drizzt is not an indicator of normal elven development, since the drow are so screwed up by the contradictory references, that it hurts.
Well, if an elf could live for 40 years and still be considered a child developmentally, then the idea that they could ever possibly learn and develop at the same rate as a human is ludicrous.
But, then, trying to come up with reasons as to why a member of an immortal race isn't vastly learned and superior at all things is pretty silly. Tolkien had no need to balance anything in his world because he was simply writing a story. The elves in Middle Earth are rare and that's all the balance they need, in the larger picture.
Making a playable RPG out of it, however, is something quite different. Tolkien elves aren't playable because they're clearly far too advanced right out of the gate, and D&D chooses to gloss over their long lifespans and reduce their differences into slight stat advantages and disadvantages. Which is fine, I guess.
Literally, though, the argument is moot. We're not creating Tolkien elves. Is there a reason that an elven race must be immortal? Why must elves and dwarves live so much longer than humans, exactly? There's no reason that Dragon Age must adhere to such lore as it pertains to elves and dwarves -- especially if it makes no sense and doesn't make for a good game -- and we're not going to. Period.
_________________
Zevran: "Hello my stocky little friend!"
Oghren: "Huh. You got small breasts for a gal."
Zevran: "Ah. This is where we begin the typical dwarven/elven rivalry, is it?"
Oghren: "Nahhh." | |
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ElAntonius
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From: Right behind you. |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 05:20PM |
I actually always disliked that there were 'immortal' player races...the aging of a hero and his retirement and eventual death are always strong story elements that can be used very well, and having a bunch of immortals running around as a heroic option kind of cheapens that.
If my character completes some epic quest and becomes immortal, the last words I want to hear are "welcome to the club"
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johnnyriot999
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Joined: 05 Aug 2005 |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 06:17PM |
Quote: Posted 11/18/05 15:59:17 (GMT) by David Gaider
Literally, though, the argument is moot. We're not creating Tolkien elves. Is there a reason that an elven race must be immortal? Why must elves and dwarves live so much longer than humans, exactly? There's no reason that Dragon Age must adhere to such lore as it pertains to elves and dwarves -- especially if it makes no sense and doesn't make for a good game -- and we're not going to. Period.
Without asking what they are (although a hint would be nice  ), there will be somewhat signifigant racial differences in terms of gameplay, wont there?
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A mind is wonderful thing to loseEdited By johnnyriot999 on 11/18/05 18:19 | |
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David Gaider
Lead Writer
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: Edmonton, AB |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 06:40PM |
Quote: Posted 11/18/05 18:17:27 (GMT) by johnnyriot999 Without asking what they are (although a hint would be nice ), there will be somewhat signifigant racial differences in terms of gameplay, wont there?
In terms of advantages and disadvantages, stat-wise, for each race? There are some, yes. I would say, myself, that the difference is more of an aesthetic and story one though.
_________________
Zevran: "Hello my stocky little friend!"
Oghren: "Huh. You got small breasts for a gal."
Zevran: "Ah. This is where we begin the typical dwarven/elven rivalry, is it?"
Oghren: "Nahhh." | |
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HotSnack
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From: World's End |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 09:40PM |
Would these stat adjustments stem from racial attribute modifiers, or racial traits?
Personally, I prefer racial differentiation to come solely from optional traits you can choose at creation, which are exclusive to a race (optional, so players can opt not to play the stereotypical elf/dwarf/whatever).
None of that dwarf gets +X to strength, so dwarves make the best warriors stuff.Edited By HotSnack on 11/18/05 21:42 | |
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David Gaider
Lead Writer
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: Edmonton, AB |
Posted: Friday, 18 November 2005 10:36PM |
Quote: Posted 11/18/05 21:40:13 (GMT) by HotSnack
Would these stat adjustments stem from racial attribute modifiers, or racial traits?
Both, actually, where appropriate.
_________________
Zevran: "Hello my stocky little friend!"
Oghren: "Huh. You got small breasts for a gal."
Zevran: "Ah. This is where we begin the typical dwarven/elven rivalry, is it?"
Oghren: "Nahhh." | |
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Volourn
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Joined: 17 Oct 2001
From: North Bay, Ontario, Canada |
Posted: Saturday, 19 November 2005 12:07AM |
"Period."
Yes. My plan is working.
Anyways, dwarves are kewl. Perhaps a seafaring dwarven race much like dwarves in the FR's past. Or sundered dwarves who don't like the dark or caves. D&D itself has lots of avriations on dwarves. They also have the derro who are the dwarves of the underdark who love magic (this is before 3E when that became moot), and pretty much died instantly or rather quickly in sunlight.
I'm sure the dwarves in DA will be dwarves; but different enough to be viewed with a differnet perspectives.
Again, dwraves are kewl, so the fact that they're in is enough for me.
Unless, BIO makes them like the pansy elves. <>
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